carlo.comments: carlo.log → Jan 29th 2004, 22:29 GMT
Morn
· 5 years ago
I don't. MMORPGs are just games. Screw trying to pretend you're not really playing with other idiot humans! Screw it sideways!
Mulligan
· 5 years ago
It comes back to the community aspect of MMO*Gs. Even if youu explicitly exclude voice comms from a game, people will aggregate into squads/teams/groups and realise that they work more efficiently using voice. They have the bandwidth and the processor power so why not? And voice is a lot easier to use that /tell.
Most MMOGs have an aspect that requires reflexes or eye-hand control at some point (no dodgy pr0n gags, Morn ;)). And removing that overhead of having to type to communicate (whether it voids escapism or not) in favour of progressing in the game that much faster or improving your gameplay skills is enticing enough that most people will do it.
Compare: I play SWG and I'm happy to chat (when I'm not shooting stuff). The chat interface is pretty good. When I played Planetside, it was all but unplayable without voice comms.
And I'll read the article tomorrow ;)
Dragonbaby
· 5 years ago
I guess it will work in some aspects of playing MMOG like when youre chatting with a friend. But it's bad enough when some players diss you thru PM's much less hear it. I mean real-time voice cannot be filtered for profanities, right? I hate it! >
Lupus
· 5 years ago
While I think that reducing immersion is cripppling for RPGs, and even to an extent other games where you feel attached to your character (e.g. 3rd person action games); I don't think it holds water for any other games. I don't empathise with my rider in Moto GP, so I don't care that the people I'm racing act like 5 year olds - I just mute them.
As Mull points out, for any game where team interaction is required, voice communications is a vast jump in playability. It doesn't have to detract from immersion, as long as you find people who are also playing along - chances are that the good teams will also be more immersive on comms, and v.v.
Planetside is a good example: the game could be immersive, but its not. Not because of voice comms, but because of gameplay issues. Voice comms with a squad of random people blasts any hint of feeling that you're really fighting those battles - usually they are babbling children, going on about lag, or other games they like, or wishing they could go prone like in Call of Duty. But if the game was properly immersive (regardless of voice comms), and encouraged either role playing or at least empathy with your character/team, then there wouldn't be so much non-immersive chat, because people would be getting into their characters.
Having voice comms, and being immersive are not mutually exclusive. They are just unrealistic based on games' target demographic: which includes a high proportion of casual gamers and younger players who don't understand the immersion concept.
Effendi
· 5 years ago
If you want immersion, and like flight sims - get hold of Falcon 4 and look for some squadrons with online games scheduled. Its actually like being in the airforce (most of them are). The immersion is second to none, but thats cos its a largely (now) unknown game with a mature player base.
As to whether voice comms is a good thing - I can see his point in the "hey, this elf is from England" vs immersion. Im not particularly bothered either way, I'd just not use it if i didnt want it, and use teamspeak if it wasnt already in the game and I did.
FanBoy
· 5 years ago
FABULOUS article. He's hit all the major points. I *FLAT OUT REFUSE* to discuss out of character/game problems, status, situations in the MUD I play. It ruins the game. I don't want to know the female troll leader of my clan is a 16 year old german boy....or girl. It would ruin the in-game world.
My 2 cents.
Lupus
· 5 years ago
Correct me if I'm wrong (I only know about MUDs from what I've read and talked to others about), but aren't MUDs nothing but chat and immersion? OOC chat in a MUD would be like some stupid form of IRC...
FanBoy
· 5 years ago
You're not wrong...MUDs are MMOs w/out the graphics, and when you start doing OOC, it's ruined FAST. Many in-game orgs (clans, guilds, cities, cults...whatever group(s) you're in) have SEVERE penalties for repeat OOC problems. Get AIM/Y!IM/ICQ/IRC/MSM if you want to talk about yourself.... :) :P
Unseelie
· 5 years ago
Of course, since we're talking X-Box, it's worth noting that if you don't include voice chat, there will be no social communication at all. No keyboard on the X-Box. Phantasy Star Online was a complete waste, as what you have is a bunch of people running around NOT talking to each other at all. How is that better than including Voice Chat?
Carlo Zottmann
· 5 years ago
True, Unseelie. But he was talking about MMORPGs, methinks, not about team games like ...dunno... Crimson Skies etc.
Unseelie
· 5 years ago
Well, actually, he was conflating the two of them. The only MMORPG's I've heard of any devs wanting to include voice chat in have been MMORPGs aimed at the console market.
With that being the case, I still think voice chat is better than nothing at all.
Now, with MMORPGs meant for the PC (or Mac... like that will ever happen... *sigh*), I don't see voice chat as being that necessary, or something that the majority of MMORPGers are interested in. The hardcore gamer types will just use their own voice software, like Roger Wilco, so there's no need to waste dev time on re-inventing the wheel.
Unseelie
· 5 years ago
Get AIM/Y!IM/ICQ/IRC/MSM if you want to talk about yourself.... :) :P
The problem with that is that most MMORPG clients run full screen and won't let you alt-tab for security reasons (third party programs that allow you to cheat). Now, if you have two computers, no problem...
Most MMORPGs generally deal with this by providing non public chat channels so you can talk BS with your buddies and not annoy others. At the most extreme, a server may be declared a 'Roleplay Only' server and OOC chat is forbidden... where forbidden generally means people bitch at you if you do it. It's not like you'll get kickbanned, after all, they still want your money.
The reality is, if you want an immersive RP environment, you're better off playing a pen and paper RPG.
FanBoy
· 5 years ago
Oh...um, #12... I wasn't saying that in reference to talking about one's self while gaming. I was being a bitch and generally saying keep it in the game, or take it all the way out. Hence the reference to other softwares. Sorry for the lack of clarity.
All Comments
Most MMOGs have an aspect that requires reflexes or eye-hand control at some point (no dodgy pr0n gags, Morn ;)). And removing that overhead of having to type to communicate (whether it voids escapism or not) in favour of progressing in the game that much faster or improving your gameplay skills is enticing enough that most people will do it.
Compare: I play SWG and I'm happy to chat (when I'm not shooting stuff). The chat interface is pretty good. When I played Planetside, it was all but unplayable without voice comms.
And I'll read the article tomorrow ;)
As Mull points out, for any game where team interaction is required, voice communications is a vast jump in playability. It doesn't have to detract from immersion, as long as you find people who are also playing along - chances are that the good teams will also be more immersive on comms, and v.v.
Planetside is a good example: the game could be immersive, but its not. Not because of voice comms, but because of gameplay issues. Voice comms with a squad of random people blasts any hint of feeling that you're really fighting those battles - usually they are babbling children, going on about lag, or other games they like, or wishing they could go prone like in Call of Duty. But if the game was properly immersive (regardless of voice comms), and encouraged either role playing or at least empathy with your character/team, then there wouldn't be so much non-immersive chat, because people would be getting into their characters.
Having voice comms, and being immersive are not mutually exclusive. They are just unrealistic based on games' target demographic: which includes a high proportion of casual gamers and younger players who don't understand the immersion concept.
As to whether voice comms is a good thing - I can see his point in the "hey, this elf is from England" vs immersion. Im not particularly bothered either way, I'd just not use it if i didnt want it, and use teamspeak if it wasnt already in the game and I did.
My 2 cents.
With that being the case, I still think voice chat is better than nothing at all.
Now, with MMORPGs meant for the PC (or Mac... like that will ever happen... *sigh*), I don't see voice chat as being that necessary, or something that the majority of MMORPGers are interested in. The hardcore gamer types will just use their own voice software, like Roger Wilco, so there's no need to waste dev time on re-inventing the wheel.
The problem with that is that most MMORPG clients run full screen and won't let you alt-tab for security reasons (third party programs that allow you to cheat). Now, if you have two computers, no problem...
Most MMORPGs generally deal with this by providing non public chat channels so you can talk BS with your buddies and not annoy others. At the most extreme, a server may be declared a 'Roleplay Only' server and OOC chat is forbidden... where forbidden generally means people bitch at you if you do it. It's not like you'll get kickbanned, after all, they still want your money.
The reality is, if you want an immersive RP environment, you're better off playing a pen and paper RPG.